Bill and Frank’s Guilt-Free Pleasures
There’s no shame in the music you love. Join us as we celebrate the open-hearted songs of the past 50 years (with a focus on the songs that shaped us from the 70s, 80s, and 90s).
Listen on:
Episodes
Sunday Mar 19, 2023
Sunday Mar 19, 2023
James Taylor's "rocker" from 1977 puts a smile on our face and we hope it puts one on yours!
Links:
Mixtape
Your Grouchy Face
Setlist from the concert we went to
Wedding Singers
Boys Choir
You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Mastodon, and our website. You can email us at BandFGuiltFree@gmail.com, too. Feel free to rate and review us wherever you listen!
Here is our Spotify playlist featuring every song we've featured.
Our theme music is by the incredibly talented Ian McGlynn.
Sunday Mar 12, 2023
Sunday Mar 12, 2023
Dave Kitchen returns for the 10th time to do 10cc! He finds himself caught in between Bill and Frank's competing readings of the song and whether or not the term "moped" should ever be used in this show. "I'm Not In Love" is one of the most lush and haunting productions ever made. We hope you can luxuriate in the sounds of this song like we do.
Our incredible mixtape can be found here.
Here's the best video for this song.
Also: the making of the song documentary
You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Mastodon, and our website. You can email us at BandFGuiltFree@gmail.com, too. Feel free to rate and review us wherever you listen!
Here is our Spotify playlist featuring every song we've featured.
Our theme music is by the incredibly talented Ian McGlynn.
Sunday Mar 05, 2023
Sunday Mar 05, 2023
Despite the toll that it takes on ourselves, we are diving back into the Jim Steinman pool of songs. We've been looking forward to doing an episode on Air Supply since we began our show. We're glad that day is finally here!
Also, sorry about the initial upload. If this is only a minute long, please delete and reload. We fixed it!
The original best video.
The other video.
Our mixtape.
You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Mastodon, and our website. You can email us at BandFGuiltFree@gmail.com, too. Feel free to rate and review us wherever you listen!
Here is our Spotify playlist featuring every song we've featured.
Our theme music is by the incredibly talented Ian McGlynn.
Sunday Feb 26, 2023
Sunday Feb 26, 2023
Bill and Frank step out of their comfort zone to discuss a song not about romantic love, but instead about political change and hope. We cover everything from whistles to Apollo Creed's untimely demise. Follow us down the Moskva as we talk about the power of music and our hope that we can still experience a wind of change in our times.
Special thanks to Vic for requesting this song!
Mixtape
Music Video
2022 Live Version
You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Mastodon, and our website. You can email us at BandFGuiltFree@gmail.com, too. Feel free to rate and review us wherever you listen!
Here is our Spotify playlist featuring every song we've featured.
Our theme music is by the incredibly talented Ian McGlynn.
Sunday Feb 19, 2023
Sunday Feb 19, 2023
In order to properly discuss Bryan Adams first US #1 hit, we decided to bring back our good friend Kate Angle. Besides being an actual member of the official Bryan Adams Fan Club for the past thirty years, Kate famously played tambourine with Bryan Adams (and Linda Evangelista) when the Canadian rocker came to our city. We discuss the film that inspired the song, whether "nice" is ever an apt descriptor, and why Frank is drawn to bizarre 1950s language whenever he thinks about this song.
Mixtape
The DUI video
The TV screen video
Re-Recorded Version
You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Mastodon, and our website. You can email us at BandFGuiltFree@gmail.com, too.
Here is our Spotify playlist featuring every song we've featured.
Our theme music is by the incredibly talented Ian McGlynn.
Sunday Feb 12, 2023
Sunday Feb 12, 2023
May this episode do justice to the powerhouse that is Mariah Carey, and may it serve as Bill's penance for being so wrong about her over the past few episodes...
More show notes will be forthcoming...
Mixtape
You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Mastodon, and our website. You can email us at BandFGuiltFree@gmail.com, too.
Here is our Spotify playlist featuring every song we've featured.
Our theme music is by the incredibly talented Ian McGlynn.
Sunday Feb 05, 2023
Sunday Feb 05, 2023
Of all the big multi-artist charity singles, this one is the might be the best - it certainly feels the most personal. Bill and Frank test the limits of their own friendship through the analysis and reflections of this song.
Mixtape
Original Video
Alternate Video
Live Performance
You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Mastodon, and our website. You can email us at BandFGuiltFree@gmail.com, too.
Here is our Spotify playlist featuring every song we've featured.
Our theme music is by the incredibly talented Ian McGlynn.
Sunday Jan 29, 2023
Sunday Jan 29, 2023
Our good friend Bruce Soderholm joins us again to celebrate Foreigner's number 1 smash hit. We discuss percentages (at length), poetic devices, and that primal groan that gives so much heft to this love song. If there's one thing we hope you can take away from this episode, it is this: "It ain't worth a damn if it ain't got Lou Gramm!"
Due to timeline constraints, we had to edit out our mixtape portion of the episode. Here is the link and see if you can predict at which points each of the three hosts are taking over the mix.
Thank you for joining us! Please share us with your friends in order to bring more joy to the world.
Helpful links:
Original Music Video
Farm Aid Performance
Mariah Carey Version
Chipmunks Version
Rock of Ages Version
Tina Arina Version
You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Masadon, and our website. You can email us at BandFGuiltFree@gmail.com, too.
Here is our Spotify playlist featuring every song we've featured.
Our theme music is by the incredibly talented Ian McGlynn.
Sunday Jan 22, 2023
Sunday Jan 22, 2023
Through revisiting Hootie & The Blowfish's first major single, Frank is finally able to come to terms with his shame. He is so sorry, Hootie.
Links:
Music Video
Sesame Street Segment
David Letterman Show
How Our Cruelty Killed Hootie and the Blowfish - and Damaged Our Souls
Mixtape
You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Masadon, and our website. You can email us at BandFGuiltFree@gmail.com, too.
Here is our Spotify playlist featuring every song we've featured.
Our theme music is by the incredibly talented Ian McGlynn.
Transcript
Bill:[0:01] Today is redemption day at Bill and Frank's Guilt-Free Pleasures. We are going to celebrate the positive force that is Hootie and the Blowfish by taking,a deep dive into their iconic first single.Frank:[0:17] So why don't you hold our hand as we take you through this song and take you through the band's history.This is Bill and Frank's Guilt-Free Pleasures.So I have a confession to make. I know the name of the podcast is Bill and Frank's Guilt-Free Pleasures, but I am riddled with guilt.Riddled with guilt for what I have done with a band that I once loved and then turned my back on because it was popular to make fun of them. And of course we're talking about Hootie and the Blowfish,and we're going to be talking specifically about Hold My Hand today, but back in 94,Hootie and the Blowfish burst onto the scene with their album Crack to Review, and were hugely popular. Crack to Review is not only one of the best debut albums of all time, but one of thebest-selling albums of all time. And then 96 they released Fairweather Johnson. So,Cracked Review has I think 26 million copies sold and then by 96 Fairweather Johnson comes out 2.3 million copies sold. So the world turned their back on Hootie and the Blowfish and I was one of those who turned his back on them. I,I denied liking them. They were a dirty secret to me. I loved their music still. I still loved their music.[1:46] I was not supportive of the band and made fun of them. And for that, I need forgiveness.Bill:[1:54] So Hootie and the Blowfish, if you're listening, we're sorry. And we're going to go from guilty to guilt-free today.Let's go through the history of hooting the blowfish.Frank:[2:10] Yeah, so they kind of burst on the scene in 94, but they weren't just brand new.They had been playing as a band for eight years.They met and started the band in 86 in South Carolina.And the story goes, Mark Bryan heard Darius Rucker singing in the shower when they were both freshmen at university.From there he said like, hey, you got the, you have this great voice. So they started a band called the Wolf Brothers.And then they brought Dean Felber and the original drummer. Give me a second here. I have his name. Brantley Smith started the band.And then after university, Brantley left the band because he wanted to pursue a career in music ministry.And that's when Jim Sonnefeld came into the band.Bill:[2:58] And Jim Sonnefeld's tryout, is that what they call it when they're trying it? That's a better word. When he had his audition, he said to them, I write songs too. So Darius Rucker is telling the story at a concert a few years ago. And he's like, oh boy. And they said they spent the whole day kind.Frank:[3:02] Or audition, I think? Yep.Bill:[3:15] Of with him. And they had been drinking beer all day and like, oh boy, here we go. He's got a song.And the song that he brought to them was Hold My Hand. Even though it says all four of them wroteit from what I gather this is Jim Sonnefeld's song I think Darius Ruckerman worked on some lyrics as well I'm not sure I mean I like the idea that they,gave themselves all writing credit which of course was financially a great thing yeah but hold my hand was what the new drummer brought into the band and it's,one of those classic stories where you have all these pieces and then you kindof switch up drummers thinking of course that thing you do and then you some or the yeah was it Ringo okay sure so hold my hand which is the song we'regonna be talking about today was written I think probably 89 somewhere around.Frank:[4:04] 89, yep.Bill:[4:05] There so there's a version of it from 1990 that is released on the CrackedRearviews 25th anniversary and there's another version of it on their EP Koochie Pop and then it came out again and cracked rearview.So by 1994, a lot of these songs have already existedfor four to five years, I think. I think, I mean, maybe two to five years,but they've been around.Frank:[4:31] Yeah, because Houdini and the Blowfish were huge in the college bar scene in South Carolina.They all stuck around there.They played, you know, they're sitting in there going from bar to bar in their van andeverything and, you know, just kind of living that musician life until they caught their big break and caught it they did.Bill:[4:54] And it was tricky because they were denied the South by Southwest entry. They're never allowed in from what I can gather when they were trying out.They have these rejection letters from like Geffen Records, people saying, well, the criticism was this is the type of music people don't want nowadays.So that was there.So this sort of music from our early 90s. I mean, there's this big transition where suddenly it got darker.But this music existed.So I feel like we've talked before about this where there's this sort of dark cloud. We act as though,Existed in those early 90s this feeling of dread existential crisis,But the truth is who in the blowfish was out there playing? Someone's listening to country music non-stop on the radio too.So there's other stories going on.Frank:[5:40] Yeah, yeah, and there isn't that, like you said, it isn't doom and gloom with their music.It's called like middle of the road rock or like safe rock or whatever, but it's happy,it's positive and I think that's what we needed at that point.Bill:[5:58] Clearly the US craved it because it was the number one Billboard album.and our rock album going to number one for the year,still is kind of a rare thing. But it had that heartland feel to it. It had the positive vibes we wanted,and everyone was listening to it. And I know you feel bad about turning your back on thembut you weren't the only person who owned the album. But amongst our friends, You were the only one who was willing to say you had it.Frank:[6:27] Yeah, I had already established myself as being a huge Toad the Wet Sprocket fan, and I still am.And then bringing Hooting the Blowfish into the mix as well.I was concerned about being that guy that just liked bands with ridiculous names.Bill:[6:45] And I was doing my best to try to prove that I really liked early Genesis. So I'd already staked my claim in Prague Rock, Even though it's deep down, I just want to listen to Phil Collins all day.Frank:[6:51] Hahaha.[6:58] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know that this is probably common knowledge, but I think it bears repeating. The name Hootie and the Blowfish doesn't refer to anyone in the band.Bill:[7:08] Right, and they have a whole sketch on Key and Peele about this. It's okay, but it's the idea that he's not Hooty.Frank:[7:09] Everyone thought that Darius Rocker was Hooty and the band was the Blowfish.[7:16] Oh do they okay yeah oh yeah yeah yeah yeah that's right.Bill:[7:22] Yeah, yeah.And that is a thing, Darius Rucker says, oh man, now that they're touring again, hekeeps being called Hooty. But it was Darius Rucker who describes himself as a bit of a, he says, I'm a nice guy, but.Frank:[7:27] Oh, serious.Bill:[7:34] I can be a bit of a jerk sometimes and I would give these nicknames to people and sometimes they weren't the kindest nicknames,So he called one guy Hootie.Frank:[7:42] Yeah, because he had big eyes and looked like an owl.Bill:[7:44] Right and then another guy came out with like I don't I'm guessing he had facial features that made him look like a blowfish.Frank:[7:50] Yeah maybe like dizzy Gillespie cheeks or.Bill:[7:52] So he Yeah, so he called one of the guys Hootie and one of the guys blowfish and then he turned saidWhy don't we just call ourselves hooting the blowfish to whoever was in the band at that moment? But we've always thought Blowfish was plural.Turns out there was a guy named Blowfishand a guy named Hooty, according to Darius Rucker. I don't know how these two guys feel about it.But that was it. And then like so many other things,like told the Wet's Sprocket, they said, well, we put that in as a joke because they're in a battle of the bands or whatever, right?And then it never left. And this is the same thing. Well, we're gonna live. Well, I mean, the great thing is for search engine optimization, you type in Hooty.Frank:[8:21] It just stuck, yeah.Bill:[8:28] There's not too much that comes up outside of this band.Frank:[8:30] That comes up, yeah, exactly. Yeah.Bill:[8:33] So this brings us to, well, we've already talked about it.Cracked Rearview is their debut album. They've had several EPs already that sold well.I think Coochie Pop sold like 50,000 copies or something. And so they are wise enough to have already formed.Frank:[8:43] Yeah, yeah.Bill:[8:47] A corporation, Hootie the Blowfish. And they had like an office in, I think it's South Carolina or wherever they were.They already have it and they still have that office.But they set up a corporation and put in their own like insurance and stuff.So they were made sure they were paid all the time. And they were wise enough by the time that they hit it big, they were 29, I think. Yeah, they were late 20s. Yeah.Frank:[9:10] Yeah, they were late 20s by the time everything sort of panned out for them.Bill:[9:14] Yeah. So that kind of gave them career longevity, even though they seemed to be a flash in the pan in terms of, I don't know, pop zeitgeist moment or whatever.Frank:[9:25] And like the, I don't think they were ever cool necessarily, but they were popular.Bill:[9:35] Yeah. And Darius Rucker even said himself, they knew that.[9:38] Things were going great for them. But deep down, he said theyknew they weren't great.Frank:[9:43] You get the feeling that there's no huge egos with that, with the band.Bill:[9:46] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And they didn't have that. And they'reall buddies. And they stayed together. Interesting side noteTrivia the band members have had marriages and divorces all of them right cuz that's just life in this industry. I,Talk as though I know all about this industry. So drummer.Frank:[10:02] Well, your wife's in the industry, right?Bill:[10:06] The drummer Barry Sonnefeld Gets divorced and in 2008 he marries Mark Bryan's ex-wife.Frank:[10:16] Oh, seriously? Oh, geez.Bill:[10:16] Yeah, they all are still buddies. So that has worked out. So So that's a bit of random trivia for you there.Frank:[10:20] Okay.[10:23] I did not know that. Wow.You got to have a strong friendship for that to happen. happen. That's crazy. It's like Johnny and Joey Ramone all of a sudden.Bill:[10:29] Yeah.[10:30] Yeah. I mean, they never look at each other in interviews and they don't speak and.[10:38] I made up the don't speak part. I'm not even sure. I'm not even sure they're friends, but they still work together as a corporate unit. All right. So Cracked Rearview.This is the album you lent me in 1994. Right? So I borrowed it from you. And back then, I mean, CDs were so expensive.Frank:[10:55] Did you create a tape? Did you? Yeah.Bill:[10:57] Oh for sure.Frank:[10:58] But there's something so comforting in Darius Rucker's voice. It's that that baritone.It feels familiar and it feels comfortable and it feels safe.Bill:[11:09] And it has all these sort of elements all baked into it. So you have this Rock and roll heartland feel but you have a soul feel in there and then you also have a country feel.Frank:[11:20] You have a soul feel in there.Bill:[11:20] And that's all mixing into like well, basically all the modes of popular american music all in one voice.Frank:[11:27] Yeah and it crossed so many genres which is probably why Crack to Review did as good as it did.It spoke to so many different people.Bill:[11:36] Dears Rucker said that to him, hold my hand as a protest song.[11:41] And he said, for me, the song was always about racism, which I never thought of.Frank:[11:46] No, and we talked about this a little bit before some of the misheard lyrics.I thought it was more of a romantic type of song, almost going back to like that early 60s, that kind of like, I wanna hold your hand, like that kind of a feel.And then I just misheard some lyricswhile I was listening to it when I was younger and thought it was more about romance, but it's about the way I understood it now,rereading the lyrics, it's about pulling people up and building them up and supporting people,and being there for them.The harmonies, particularly in the chorus, It just, it helps to push through that theme of what, hold my hand, what thatthat resembles.Bill:[12:35] You always use that word. That drives me insane. Alright. So this song has three iterations to it.So there's this one, which is the one we all know, but there was two earlier versions.So the neat thing is hearing its development as it went. But neater still is it wasn't really developed.It was already there in 1990.I read somewhere where they said 95% of the sound was already on those EPs and you canhear it. Every part of it has already been worked together by them. So the producer of this is Don Gaiman, who also worked with Mellencamp and REM in the,past. And so they thought it was a good fit.And it was and he did bring some things out there like he just pushed certain sounds outthere. You can hear the bass much better. a clarity and there's way more power in the chorus, which is what makes the song whatit is to me. But they already had it there. So it's kind of neat that this band knew what they were and work towards it.It wasn't as though they were created by a producer.Frank:[13:45] Yeah, the producer just took what was already there and just sort of fine-tuned it a bit.Bill:[13:49] All right. Well, let's talk about the song.Frank:[13:54] Yeah, song analysis. What I like, it starts off with that nice clean acoustic guitar strum,and it starts off with the opening line, with a little love and some tenderness. We'll walk upon the water, we'll rise above the mess. With a little peace and some harmony, we'll take the world together, we'll take them by the hand.Bill:[14:14] Now, that in itself is something worth looking over, why this band is so popular.So, with a little love and some tenderness kind of brings back some of those peace and love 60s stuff.We'll Walk Upon the Water brings in the gospel, right?We'll Rise Above the Mess with a little peace and some harmony. And so you have this sort of all of us are together.When I heard this originally, I just thought it was a love song,because I have the Beatles, I want to hold your hand in my head.that's all I think it's about. But as I'm looking at it now, the gospel throwback lines make it feel much bigger thing,that there's something much more powerful going on. And that leads of course to the pre-chorus almost, or tease pre-chorus,cause I've got a hand for you, cause I wanna run with you.I just love the notion that it's holding someone's hand and then running with them.So you're kind of taking them somewhere, you're either taking them away from something,or towards something. And I think in this song is both.Frank:[15:14] You're running towards something.[15:18] But, and it's also, you're helping them to get there. It's like, it paints this beautiful picture in my mind anyways, of like, there's anexcitement behind it too, cause like you're dragging someone's like, I got like, no, no,no, no, no, you got to come here. This is super exciting. Come with me.Bill:[15:34] So you have a, the next verse or I don't know,but it's yeah, we'll call it verse. Yesterday I saw you standing there. Of course. We don't think it's yesterday. What do we think?Frank:[15:47] Yes, indeed.Bill:[15:48] Yes, indeed. Okay, so there's music yeah.Frank:[15:51] Well, and that was the other in the in the first verse, it was, when he says, we'll walk upon the water, we'll rise above the mess. I was I mean, it's just a slight change. But we'll I thought it was we'll rise above the mist.Bill:[16:04] Same with me because I thought I matched the water but the mess is is better but I but this is the sameI'm realizing now other lyrics so yesterday I saw you standing there your head was down your eyes were red No comb had touched your hair. I said get up and let me see you smile,We'll take a walk together walk the road a while cuz,But what cuz as a nut cousin hasn't because that line therewhere the idea of finding somebody who is down in the dumps.Now, just off the top of my head, just thinking about this,how about this for a reading?You're sitting down, you're ready for this?Frank:[16:43] I'm sitting down, yep.Bill:[16:45] This is Hootie and the Blowfish talking to 1990s music.Frank:[16:55] Oh, wow.Bill:[16:56] What do you think?They're looking at the grunge movement.Frank:[16:58] Yeah.Bill:[16:58] They're looking at the people just sitting therewith their red eyes are all upset.And this is the band coming to us and saying.Frank:[17:06] The band is saving the world.Bill:[17:07] The band is saving the world. Yeah, cause we didn't comb our hair.Take a look at all those grunge people. They didn't comb their hair. And he says, get up, let me see you smile. I love that. Cause like no one was smiling.It wasn't a thing.And he's gonna take us on a walk. We're walking together, walk down that road.And that's of course these classics Southern songs, beautiful pictures of this sort of harmony, hospitality. Let's get together.Frank:[17:35] And you can see that they're walking down a country road.There's like 100 year old trees lining the street and everything.and it's just a simpler time.Bill:[17:46] So here we go. Now we're headed into it. I've got a hand for you. I want to run with you. We've heard that before. And then it goes in that chorus. Hold my hand. I want you to hold my hand.and hold my hand, I'll take you to a place where you can be anything you want to be because I want to love you the best that the best that I can.Frank:[18:09] I'm getting goosebumpy and I'm getting teary-eyed right now. This is so beautiful.This is so, so beautiful. And then, like I said, Daris Rocker's voice is just so comforting and accepting. It is, oh my goodness, why did I ever turn my backs on these guys?Bill:[18:31] Listener Frank's actually crying. You are we didn't take a break here.Frank:[18:35] I might be. Yeah, no, it's just, oh, what was I doing? What was I thinking?My 20s were wasted.Bill:[18:46] Here's the thing listening to the lyrics of the song,tweeting the blowfish is not going to deny you entrance and to hootie-halla.Frank:[18:55] Oh, I know. And Darius Rucker's gonna take me by the hand and he's gonna run with me to all the fun and cool things. gonna judge you? No! It's okay. Oh man, such a beautiful song. Oh, I love this song.Bill:[18:56] You're still gonna be able to walk there with them.[19:04] He's not gonna judge you. It's okay.[19:12] Alright, let's work through some more of these lyrics because I think this is pretty rewarding. See, I was wasted and I was wasting time till I thought about your problems.I thought about your crimes.Now, I didn't think it was crimes. I thought it was crap. I thought about your crap. Okay, all right, so I thought it was tongue crap but crimes crimes is odd to me.Frank:[19:26] I heard crimes but.Bill:[19:32] So see I was wasted is wasting time thought about your problems thought about your crimes,Then I stood up and then I screamed aloud. I don't want to be part of your problems,Don't want to be part of your crowd that this this is the verse where it did throw me a bit thinking about Okay, this isn't just hey, let's hold hands and we'll be okay because when Darius Rucker says he's thinking racism,I'm trying to wonder if he's thinking about,Maybe American history or something about the I don't know if he's thinking about your the crimes that's been done in the name of,You know a segregation or what slavery all these sorts of things where he's now there. I,Don't know. I feel like when I was reading it he's screaming and he's saying I don't want to be part of this problem,Yeah, and then he's gonna grab the hand and take them away.Frank:[20:24] Yeah, that's the way I read it.Cause like you can read it one way saying, like he's just, he's getting out of there.But my understanding is he's getting out of there, but he's taking his friend with him.Bill:[20:36] Yeah, he's escaping but with so he is in a sense,saving people but this sort of notion that you could pull someone out of of whatever garbage they're in.Frank:[20:49] Oh, the muck and the mire and the crap that they're dealing with and all that. And yeah, he's being that good friend.Bill:[20:49] Yeah.[20:55] Yeah, so what this song is saying is you can be redeemed. And that's what we need to hear.In the 90s, there was so much,at least the early 90s, that sort of music was like,well, to quote a Nirvana song, that was a joke,but still it was called, I Hate Myself, I Wanna Die.But this is Hootie the Blowfish saying, no, no, no, come on up.and telling you who you are, right?You know, when Koma touched your hair,I'll show you what a good shampoo and conditioner can do.Frank:[21:23] And I just want to see you smile. Oh, when I see you smile.Bill:[21:24] And I just wanna see you smile. Yeah, yeah.Wow, that comes back to that song you danced to.Frank:[21:33] Yeah, that was an early 90s song too. Yeah. And considering that, like Hootie and the Blowfish.Bill:[21:34] Yeah, this is all coming together. Yeah, all that stuff got destroyedwith the grunge movement and all this, but it wasn't able to destroy some peace and harmony.Frank:[21:47] They came like from the mid 80s. That's when they started off 86 I think it was. So you know they're putting in their time and they're this fun bar band and everything and they have this popularity but then they're they're kind of watching like you said that they got rejection letters saying,this isn't the music that people want to listen to right now. Well obviously it was because it sold as huge as it was, but watching that huge cultural shift in terms of the music style and what was popular for about two years, but just persisting on.They held each other's hands and they got themselves through all that.Bill:[22:28] And that leads to our little switch up in that next chorus that kind of takes us through to the end where they talk about what he talks about having hand for you and all that stuff but says hold my hand want you to hold my hand that's his background i guess i could read this without the background vocals let me try that again.Frank:[22:45] Yeah, but the background vocals before you go any further, the harmonies and they're singing, It rounds everything out so well.And David Crosby sang harmonies on this for the choruses.Bill:[22:58] And this is what makes the big difference between the early versions and this is that chorus the sound of the voices pushing it forward is strong andif you listen closely you can hear David Crosby because there's that Crosby stills Nash sound, at least one third of it moving in there and I can almost kind of perceive that.Frank:[23:13] This is. Yeah. Well, it really does help that chorus pop.Bill:[23:19] Vocal pushing the song up to the heights. Oh yeah. And so in that chorus, instead of saying, I'll,take you to the place where you can be, it changes to, I'll take you to the promised land, capital P,capital L. So you have two things one is a course classic gospel language, but also promised land is language of,The abolitionist movement. Yeah, right. So so I can't.Frank:[23:49] Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.Bill:[23:51] Unsee this now, especially after Darius Rucker saying he always felt it was a protest song,So whatever he's looking at there in there or whatever Jim Sonfeld was also thinking when he wrote itI'm curious what the original version was and what?what the drummer brought to the band and then what the band did with it. Because I mean, to be fair, the song isn't what it is without that guitar bridge, right?The song isn't what it is without that sort of moving bass line that you can really hear,in this version. So I do like that they're all for credit as songwriters.Frank:[24:26] Yeah yeah yep.Bill:[24:29] The video for this, we'll come back to, we're going to come back to the song.Frank:[24:33] Yeah why's Jim gotta be the only one with his shirt off though yeah flesh.Bill:[24:36] But it was very odd why he's shirtless.At one point I wondered if he had any clothes on, like, oh good, he's got cargo shorts on or something.Frank:[24:44] Color cargo shorts or whatever.Bill:[24:46] Well, we were introduced to a band who dresses like,I mean, they dress like they're going to a university party,but also pretty close to someone who's dressing,like they're about to go play 18 holes of golf.Frank:[25:00] Yeah oh and who do the blow fit that huge golf fans all of them.Bill:[25:04] Yeah, I think part of the blowback against them was this felt like PGA rock to some extent.Frank:[25:08] Yeah.Bill:[25:10] But the video has all these sort of images,of people together.There's one point that there does seem to belike this sort of group of friends together having a pack,but then there's a moment where there's a guyreading the newspaper and kids are running around him, but he never seems to get up and change his mind. Then there's another thing where a whole bunch of people,are together in a circle running around,but I'm looking for the guy who's sitting there reading the paper and he doesn't seem to be there. So I don't know what the subtext is of it.Although the band didn't look like they're having a good time. And Jim Sonnenfeld has a smile that, yeah.Frank:[25:47] Such a goofy smile. They're all goofy guys.Bill:[25:50] Yeah, it's a lot of Care Bears smiles. Not quite Care Bears stares, but they got a lot of joy.Frank:[25:53] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think they're I think they're just so pumpedIt's just like we are recording a music video right now. We have made it. This is so excitingWell, it's tough. I know it's cliche for me to say, but it's the chorus. It's the harmonies in the chorus.Bill:[26:04] Now that we talked about music video, I wanna get that out of the way. What's your favorite part of this song?Frank:[26:18] It just really moves everything the way that it needs to go. Second there's that great guitar bridge, which I really love.But yeah, like, cause I got a hand for you. I got a hand for you. And it's all like everyone singing together and then the like, hold my hand.And then Darius Rocker punches through with with his lyrics and everything. And it's just, it just comes together so nicely.Bill:[26:43] And that's mine too. That when they sing Hold My Hand, I know you took it. It was like, that bridge felt so familiar to the guitar bridge is like, oh, this is classic 90s bridge. But I.Frank:[26:47] Well, you can't have that. That's mine. Yeah.Bill:[26:56] Yeah, I think we're in agreement that that chorus is, you know,the thing. And it's a long song. It's four and a half minutes. And then other versions are about five minutes or so. And.Frank:[27:00] Yeah, that's where it's at.But it doesn't feel long. It doesn't feel long listening to it. But you're right though, like lyrically it paints this great picture.Bill:[27:07] But it doesn't feel long. No.Frank:[27:16] And the way that it's sung, you can feel it. You can feel and you can see in your head exactly what they're singing. it's just I don't know it's a great song I am sorry I am so sorry I turned my backs on you guys.Bill:[27:30] Well, you're here to stay now. Did you watch that early Letterman performance?Frank:[27:35] I remember seeing it videos of it after after they they had been on there butand I'd seen them again when they returned to because they returned a few times to Letterman.Bill:[27:48] So the first time they played Hold My Hand there, like you could sense sort of nerves.Like Darius Rucker is not as loose.Like he's a bit restrained but what was going on was Paul Schaeffer's whole backing band was in on the chorus and,They're playing along so even though the band isn't,totally tight in the performance, but they have the support of Schaeffer's band and it is pretty cool to see and,I know Letterman likes,The name Hooting the Bullfish, but you could see he really liked the album and he was pushing there's certain things he pushes and that was one of them.Frank:[28:28] Yeah, yeah, yeah. When Letterman likes you, he really lets you know.Bill:[28:34] And this is like a bit over the top, but I'm going to read it because Darius Rucker mentioned it when in this interview, there's the whole thing about the hatred of Hooting the Blowfish.One thing he said a couple things. One thing he said is people hate us because we don't write songs about how much we hate our parents or how much school sucked.And then he also talked about the Letterman thing and he said,this is the day grunge ended.Frank:[28:59] I don't think he's wrong though.Bill:[29:04] We had just gone through three or four years of record sales not being that good and grunge being the big thing on the radio.And then all of a sudden we're saying hold my hand.You know these great little hooks that were undeniable and people wanted to hear that.They wanted to hear it again and again.Frank:[29:21] And he's not wrong. I think people needed something positive. After, like we said, the doom and gloom of the early early 90s rock.Bill:[29:30] I found something even more positive than the song and I can say it this way because it's still the.Frank:[29:35] Oh, yeah!Bill:[29:36] Song but it's on Sesame Street. It was one of the best appearances of a band that I've seen,And so they're there with the Muffets and it's about crossing the street,It was so good And so Elmo's there and Darius Rucker takes Elmo by the hand to help him cross the street and that's so good The lyrics are set up to be about waiting for an adult you trust to help you cross the street and it was.Frank:[30:00] Yeah, that's awesome.Bill:[30:03] Beautiful positive and the band is all in.Frank:[30:07] You can't go through life with a band name Hootie and the Blowfish and take yourself too, too seriously.I think they understood and which is why they probably set up that corporation. They they probably knew it's like, okay, this might like this might be our only shot. So like, let's make sure that we capitalize on it. And you get the feeling that I can't remember if I said this or not.but there's not really a big ego with the band. We talked about like them being in bar fights and stuff like that early on but that was you know I think for for good reason if you you can you know,justify violence and all that but you don't get the feeling that they lived that quote-unquote rock and roll lifestyle.Bill:[30:50] They certainly didn't before Crack but afterwards each of them sort of had their struggles from the sounds of it.Frank:[30:58] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.Bill:[30:59] Yeah, so they never did heroin. But there was just reading interviews with like they,there was some crazy, yeah.Frank:[31:08] They partied pretty good. Well they were a party band to begin with. Well, Daris Rucker has that amazing country career right now too.Bill:[31:11] Right, and so I guess coming into this scene.[31:15] I think they found their way.They found their back on their feet, so to speak.and things are going well for them. I mean, so it's neat, you can kind of read up on the histories of each and then they're doing okay.[31:29] It's crazy. I remember when, yeah. We talked about him earlier for the Lionel Richie episode.Frank:[31:34] Which is bonkers.Bill:[31:35] His duet with Lionel Richie is bananas.Frank:[31:37] Is, yeah, it's crazy good. Can we put a little clip of it here?Bill:[31:44] Well, we got to. Yeah.Frank:[31:45] Yeah, okay.Bill:[31:48] All right, well, I think we got some categories we could talk about. Michael Bolton.Frank:[31:54] Okay, I'm going to say no.And there's reason because of that. The opening line is with a little love and some tenderness.I think he would get confused and just sing time love and tenderness.Bill:[32:08] I didn't think of that.That's good. I would love to see Darius Rucker, Michael Bolton duet, Ala, Lionel Richie, Darius Rucker duet.Frank:[32:16] Oh, yeah.Bill:[32:17] So I would like a thing where it's the Darius Rucker duets album and Michael Bolton comes out to sing, hold my hand.Frank:[32:23] That would be fantastic. As long as he's singing. He's not singing time love and tenderness.Bill:[32:28] Yeah, I think you'd have to have people feeding lines, also restraining Michael Bolton when he wants to go full Bolton, he's gonna have to control them.Frank:[32:35] Like a shock collar or something. You were weakened at Bernie's I was more running man.Bill:[32:36] They'll have ropes.[32:39] I was thinking of a series of pulleys and ropes,But yeah, you went more running man.[32:50] All right, Hallmark movie. I have written down here Hallmark Pure Flix movie, because I think this would make a great Christian movie.Frank:[32:59] And because there's no real romance about the song, it's all about like, building each other up and being like there for each.Bill:[33:02] The idea of that redemption is so much what I want life to be, that someone could come.Frank:[33:07] Together.Bill:[33:17] Along and help out somebody else.This is what the song is about.It's not the self-actualization of the person singing in terms of I'm going to find myselfand get there. They might be they might find themselves in the act of their,charity towards their fellow human.Frank:[33:34] Yeah. Yeah. But but all they're doing is they're looking out for their fellow human. It's not a self-serving thing.Bill:[33:41] And so that really does feel like the band because they are always seen ascollective. There's never a sense that I could see that they hated each other or or that Darius Rucker was gonna go on his own,even though he did, but it was amically.Frank:[33:54] Well, and they said they said like no we never broke up we were on hiatus. So in in 2008 was when Darius record left to do his solo career.but they're back together and they're touring and they're releasing albums and stuff like that And he said like, no, no, like we're always hooting the blowfish.we're always going to be us.Bill:[34:14] The great thing is the sort of vindication of time that 25th anniversary of crack free review finally came out like 2019. Their tour was sold out. Yes. And so I mean, it was,like the number one tour, I think of 2019. And of course, it's it coincides with that article. I mean, I don't know if we'd fully talked about it. But you read this article in Esquire magazine, which was titled What's the title of it?Frank:[34:42] How our cruelty killed Hooty and the Blowfish and damaged our souls.And then the byline is we need forgiveness for what we did in 1996.And this is what brought up a lot of guilt and pain for me realizing just like I have not atoned for my sins.Bill:[35:03] But 2019 ended up being a year that was amazing for Hootie and the Blowfish and the article is kind of funny reading it Because they're like 2018 was such a bad year. We got to find ourselves again. It's like, oh, no, no, no.Frank:[35:07] Yeah. You have no idea what's on the horizon here. Oh yeah.Bill:[35:18] Yeah, yeah, and he may even met anybody's like this being January 6. He mentioned someone's like, oh you have no ideaWhat January 6 is gonna mean in the future too? So we have like COVID is just about to come right?COVID-19 comes towards the end of that year and it doesn't really hit North America till maybe March,of 2020 and now we're in 2023 now and oh my goodness so much has changed since thenwhere this guy had no idea where we were headed.Frank:[35:43] Well, we'll put a link to the article in the show notes. Fantastic article.Bill:[35:45] Uh, yeah, Frank, I...Frank:[35:48] He takes a lot of pot shots at other artists that like we give these guys a pass, but we dump on Hootie and the Blowfish and he's calling out like Deep Blue something.I know Bill you love Breakfast at Tiffany's right? That's one of your favorite songs?Bill:[36:09] I don't know.Frank:[36:09] I don't think I've ever seen Bill shoot daggers at me before. But then like Dishwala, Dave Matthews band, Counting Crows, talking about all these bands.Bill:[36:13] Yeah.[36:13] But yeah, there is something to be said about where this music fits in within the 90s.Frank:[36:21] Just like, why did these guys get a pass but we dump on Hooty?Bill:[36:32] That's a good call. Like yeah, bands were able to survive and be given passes, but not this.Well that leads to the mixtape doesn't it?Frank:[36:40] Yeah, you go first. Okay, I have, it could be long.Bill:[36:41] Yeah. Okay I got a kind of long mixtape. Okay.Okay.I have a feeling we are going to cross over a lot here.Frank:[36:51] I'll let you go first.Bill:[36:52] Okay.Well here are the songs. I wanted to cut it down but that just wasn't happening because there's so many types of songs I wanted to put in here.So here we go. What I picked were bands from the 90s that were sort of given a dismissal by the widerculture in the end. Like they might have been popular, but then they were cast aside, especially by critics.Frank:[37:20] Okay. No, no, no, no. Mine is very, very superficial.Bill:[37:21] It's not crossing into your territory at all.Oh, good. Okay.Okay. So here we go.Enid by the Bare Naked Ladies.to me, Delamitri. It is. I know. And I'm not sure people hate.Frank:[37:35] That's a great song. I really like that song.Bill:[37:39] Delamitri because I'm like, I don't but it has that same happyfeel. And Ian it is goofy happy feel and Bear Nickleys toured.Frank:[37:42] Oh, yes.Bill:[37:46] With Hootie and the Blowfish.Favorite of yours here, the Goo Goo Dolls. Sorry, slide. So,positive. I go back to them. Yeah, sorry about that. Two,Two Princes, Spin Doctors, Run Around, Blues Traveler, Flood, Jars of Clay.Frank:[38:08] I think I had all of those albums.Bill:[38:10] Next one for sure you'd have, Toad the Wet Sprocket, Nightingale Song. I picked a yeah, I just it's a beautiful song and then I end it with Found Out About You by Gin Blossoms.Frank:[38:14] Oh, beautiful song.[38:20] Oh, okay. So I went.[38:24] I went so superficial. Songs that have body parts in the title.Bill:[38:30] Okay, all right, here we go.Frank:[38:32] So this is my head and shoulders, knees and toes, mixtape.Put your head on my shoulder, Paul Anka. Betty Davis Eyes, Kim Karnes.When I'm Back on My Feet Again by Michael Bolton. Footloose, Kenny Loggins.In Your Arms Awhile by Josh Ritter.I Just Died in Your Arms Tonight, Cutting Crew.Bill:[38:59] Wow. Yeah, it was definitely.Frank:[39:02] And then we are ending it with hands by Jewel.Bill:[39:08] Just know, I, you know, I should have seen that coming. And I, I know.Frank:[39:12] How could you not?Bill:[39:14] And as soon as I saw that you were going, you're still speaking like,oh, here it comes. Well, I can't say hands doesn't fit.Are you giving us Christmas hands or the original?Frank:[39:24] No, the original.Bill:[39:25] Oh, the original. All right. I can't say that's better.Frank:[39:28] Yeah, it's the same song. It just has no jingle bells in it.Bill:[39:29] Same song. All right. Well, I guess I get that for the Cuckoo Dolls. I like Slide.I like that song. All right.Frank:[39:36] Yeah, you can like it. I like hands.Bill:[39:41] There's another song called Hold My Hand by Lady Gaga for the Top Gun soundtrack.Frank:[39:44] That's right, yeah. Yes, yeah, yeah.Bill:[39:47] Good tune. So I was going to have a category, greatest Hold My Hand song, but I'm like, that's,we're not all about that. And this leads to Garth Brooks at the American Music Awards.American Music Awards had the following nominations for Artist of the Year. And it was Hootie the Blowfish, Green Day, Boyz II Men, TLC, Garth Brooks.Garth Brooks wins. Now American Music Awards is a bit different. It's based on sales and votes, I think, or something.So Garth Brooks wins. And he says, I can't accept this award because when we choose one artist over another, we're,all diminished or something like that. Yeah. And then he left it. And so I had thought.Frank:[40:29] He was very diplomatic about it, basically saying he didn't deserve it.Bill:[40:36] I had read that he'd actually mentioned Hootie and the Blowfish, but it might have come upin interviews later where he said, Hootie and the Blowfish sold the most. This is clearly the band everyone loves. So that's why we're not picking Lady Gaga versus Hootie and theBlowfish. Garth Brooks wouldn't want that. So Dearest Rucker is hanging out with Garth bit of a side note here, but it all comes together. And Garth Brooks said, do you ever wonder what.Frank:[40:52] Yeah, exactly.Bill:[41:00] Happened to that award I left on the podium? And Darius Rucker said, well, what happened to it?He goes, nah, it's on my mantle at home. I love Garth Brooks. It's so great. So just for that.Frank:[41:08] So we took it? That's awesome.Bill:[41:17] I think maybe someday we'll get to friends in low places.Frank:[41:22] Yeah, there's a whole genre that we really haven't gotten into is then that that's country music that's really not been in our wheelhouse, but it's obviously in Darius Rucker's wheelhouse.Bill:[41:26] Yeah.[41:33] Yeah, I'm open to going there.Frank:[41:34] Oh absolutely same here.Bill:[41:39] We've gone on quite a journey here, Frank.Frank:[41:41] Yeah and I feel a little bit I won't say redeemed but I feel it's good to get this weight off my soul and admit that I was wrong and and apologize to Hootie and the blowfish that I was one of the many that turned their backs on them.Bill:[42:01] So fellow listeners, you may be feeling the same way too, right?You may be feeling that you turned your back on Hootie, but Hootie is back. And so are the blowfish.And things are okay. So I want you to picture yourself maybe as Frank. And the band comes walking by.And today they see Frank standing there.His head is down. His eyes are red. He's admitted that he's turned his back on the band.You know what they're going to say to you, Frank, and to you listeners?Get up. Let me see you smile. We're going to walk together.We're going to walk the road a while because we all got hands for you.Frank:[42:50] I can't wait for that day to happen.Bill:[42:53] Thank you for listening to Bill and Frank's guilt-free pleasures.
Sunday Jan 15, 2023
Sunday Jan 15, 2023
The original version of "Wild Horses" is difficult to find. Outside of the music video on YouTube, it's not available on any streaming service or for sale electronically. Stranger still, Wikipedia has no entry for the song or its corresponding album. This is a shame - "Wild Horses" is an incredible song. In this episode, we give you all the information (and more) that we could find out on the song and video, from mystical experiences in Peru to a shaman named Jamie in Arizona and ties to the Getty family. Sit back and enjoy. It's Gino time!
Helpful links:
Original Video
Mixtape
Boom 97.3 Interview (Behind the Vinyl)
You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Masadon, and our website. You can email us at BandFGuiltFree@gmail.com, too.
Here is our Spotify playlist featuring every song we've featured.
Our theme music is by the incredibly talented Ian McGlynn.
Transcript:
Frank:[0:00] So today on Bill and Frank's Guilt-Free Pleasures, we're going to talk about Gino Vannelli's "Wild Horses." We're going to discuss his determination in getting a record deal, his connection with a shaman named Jamie, and also his connection with the Getty dynasty.Bill:[0:17] But before we get to that, cut to the theme music.Frank:[0:22] Take it away, Ian McGlynn.Bill:[0:44] In this episode, we are pushing Frank Pearson to the limit. Because today's song is a mysterious song.It's a song that seemingly has disappeared from all streaming services. It is difficult to find any information on.Frank:[1:07] Yeah, there's no Wikipedia page specifically for this song. There's no song facts page for it. I have not been able to go to either of my main resources to look up information for this song.Bill:[1:21] And I realized this as I was doing my deep dive and I thought wow they even scrubbed the album from WikipediaSo today's episode is on Gino Vannelli's "Wild Horses."So turn up the heat, pour yourself a glass of red wine.Frank:[1:39] Sit back and enjoy.Bill:[2:04] As we mentioned, this is a challenge.Frank:[2:08] Oh my goodness, like I have so many tabs open on my computer right now and each of them has just a little bit of a nugget of information for the song or for Gino Vannelli and I mean I'm going to,be honest I'm probably not going to refer to any of them I'm just going to make it all up as I goalong but yeah researching this was a little bit of a little bit of a chore for me I'm glad I had a little bit of time off over the holidays so I could dedicate some time to it.Bill:[2:38] So why don't you give us a little history of Gino Vannelli anyways that you could find anyways on as far as the artist goes.Frank:[2:45] Gino Vannelli was born to his parents, has brothers and sisters, and is a musician.Oh wait, it's only brothers, isn't it?Bill:[2:53] You sure he's got any sisters?Yeah, okay. All right. Maybe maybe I'll have to take over,He's coming out of Montreal Quebec and so we also featured another musician at a Montreal named Andy Kim, who also had a similar backstory in that they went to the big city in the States.For Andy Kim, it was New York. For Gino Vanelli, I believe it was LA?Frank:[3:20] It was Hollywood actually. So this is one of the things that I actually found, I think it was a YouTube interview that he did.They booked tickets to go to Hollywood and they get there and they realize they're inHollywood Florida, not Hollywood California.He went with his brother Joe. And this is according to Gino Vannelli in a YouTube interview.This is something that I find interesting too, because some musicians have varying like origin stories or Genesis stories that that changed from interview to interview. So you kind of wonder which which is true and which is a bit of an embellishment.Anyways, according to Gino, he and Joe had tickets booked to go to Hollywood, but end up in Hollywood, Florida and then have to book a separate trip from Florida to California.they end up in Hollywood proper.Bill:[4:13] And while they're in Hollywood,he's being supported by his family. His parents are good to him. Like in terms of the story,his mother was sending money. But what ended up happening is his mother sent money to Hollywood, Florida instead of Hollywood, California. Was that what happened?Yeah. So I don't know if they went to, I mean, I didn't hear the story about them landing in Hollywood, Florida, but his mom had sent moneyto Hollywood, Florida and they were stuck. They had no money. They'd been trying to make things work.And he was kind of at the end of things. as far as making his dream happen.Frank:[4:46] Yeah, it was down to like his last $5.Bill:[4:48] Yeah, so he went into a church, he said, and sat in this church sometime in the early morning hours. It was open, sat in there, and just, I think he fell asleep.He said the quietness of the place, not so much some sort of mystical thing. He was really quick to say that, even though we'll talk about his spirituality later, I'm sure, but he said the quiet sort of space helped him to know what he needed to do.And then he went over to where Herb Alpert's studio was.And he sat there while the guard who is slightly injured,so he couldn't run so fast, but the guard's like, you stay there.And Gina Vannelli said, I'm allowed to stay here. It's on public property.And he said, don't you dare try to run over and talk to anybody.And Gina Vannelli's like, yep, yep, yep. And then he sees Herb Alpert come out and then he darts across the parking lot to get to him.Frank:[5:41] And Herb Alpert, sorry, is one of the co-owners of A&M Records.Bill:[5:45] Exactly, and so the guard is saying, damn you, he's trying to get him, pulls out his gun apparently, because Herb Alpert's wife has been stalked.Frank:[5:51] Oh, jeez.Bill:[5:55] Or something like that, so Herb Alpert's wondering what's going on. So in this moment, Herb Alpert's thinking this could be the stalker, Gino Vannelli's taking his life in his hands, and then he just says to Herb Alpert, I have all these songs, I want to try these things.And Herb Alpert says to the guard, like, hey Joe, relax, it's okay.And the guard is so angry.And he says to Gino, come back in half an hour. And so Gino Vannelli comes back in half an hour,plays the songs for him. And then Herb Alpert said, welcome to A&M Records.Frank:[6:27] Yeah, and it's similar to the Andy Kim story where he had a similar instance. He was in New York, but same thing, regular exec just waited, waited, waited, and finally kind of ambushed the exec.And I will apologize that my confusion with the Hollywood Florida versus Hollywood Californiastory in my typical research fashion, I was, you know, 100% into it. I was a had the YouTube video playing while I was scrolling through Tinder. So it's.Bill:[7:01] Wait, wait a sec. Did you make up the Hollywood Florida story?Frank:[7:03] No I thought that I heard that I think it might be true. I'm not sure.Bill:[7:07] Okay, but you know, he's gonna be so angry when he listens to this. So there's something about Montreal singers who have the sort of moxie to just go for it.Frank:[7:10] I know right.[7:16] Yeah, yeah, they got a lot of guts and especially to run through a parking lot,with the security guard chasing you like that's like going all in on your dream.Bill:[7:27] The guns pointed. Yeah, hopefully Joe was a bad shot. Well, hopefully he didn't kill curb Alpert. Yeah, these are tough times. Oh.Frank:[7:28] Yeah.[7:33] Yeah I know I like to think that the the guard was probably distracted by Gino of Nellie's amazing hair.Bill:[7:39] Yeah, he's a very good-looking man and in 1970s Gino Vannelli hair is something else now Gino Vannelli is very successful in the 70s,He had his big album. I think was this I was his third album or fifth album brother to brother Yeah, and the song was I just want to stop written by Ross Finnelli. I believe is one of his brothers I thought I was written by Gino was actually written by his brother. Gino is a songwriter. Yeah.Frank:[8:04] Make sense brother to brother.Bill:[8:06] But well, yeah, there we go. And that's a huge rock song and also I mean he just Did huge business in the 70s we head into the 80s and now it's a different time Gino cuts his hair.Frank:[8:10] Well, yeah, because the 70s are different from the 80s.Bill:[8:21] They are but there's a sound new wave has come in and Gino purposely ends up making an 80s record before this one so,He gets into a fight with CBS records or Arista one of these record companies of what he's with and they won't let himRelease his music. So there's this,Lengthy period where he doesn't release anything. So you have Nightwalker has come out in 81 and then it takes untiluntil 1984 for Black Cars to come out. And Black Cars is an 80s synth album.And he knows what he's doing.And then the follow up to that three years later, his big dreamers never sleep. You'll see on your Wikipedia page in front of you, Frank, there is no hyperlink.No one has published a Wikipedia entry.Now, of course, the question is, will we be the people who publish that Wikipedia entry?Frank:[9:12] I'm going to include the story of him traveling to Hollywood, Florida.Bill:[9:16] Yeah, and so we'll see if within half an hour someone changes it, we'll know it's false. So Big Dreamers Never Sleep, 1987, this album comes out and it's as usual produced by Gino Vannelli and his two brothers, Joe and Ross,and it includes kind of his last major hit,which is "Wild Horses," the song we're doing today. And then this sets in motion his future, I think.Cause by then now he can become a touring thing. He's got all these songs and "Wild Horses" is one of those regular songs he sings.Frank:[9:49] Yeah, yeah.Bill:[9:52] Yeah.So as I said earlier, I really pushed this episode.So I apologize, Frank. I'm like, we're doing Gino Vannelli, we're doing Wild Horses, it's happening. And Frank didn't realize I bought the CD onlinebecause you can't get an MP3, you can't buy a legit copy of this online.So I went and bought the actual album. So I got the CD and it's that old CD thingwhere you open the booklet and like, oh, here's a list of songs and a list of performers, no lyrics, it's thin.And the back page is all about how great a compact disc is. Oh, seriously? Oh yeah.Frank:[10:24] Oh seriously?Bill:[10:26] So I think I have an original copy. I think it might be a German pressing even. Yeah.Frank:[10:30] Yeah.Bill:[10:31] So it's fine. It's very 1980s in its production.There's a couple tracks that really stand out for me, but Wild Horses, Far and Away is a big one.Now it's written by Gino Vannelli and Roy Freeland,which I don't have a lot of information on Roy Freeland. I would have liked to have dove more into this,but he's done a lot of work with other songwriters.So it's hard to know, this frustrates me,when a songwriter doesn't talk about his co-writer. So when Gino Vannelli talked about writing the song,and talk about Roy Freeland's involvement.Frank:[11:08] I mean, it is a Gino Vannelli song. So, you know, it's tough to take that away from Gino. But at the same time, you know, throw the man a bone.Bill:[11:18] Yeah, now to be fair, I think both you and I when we talk to others about the podcast we don't even mention each other.Frank:[11:26] Oh, no, I call it my podcast. Who's this Bill guy? It's just a character I do.Bill:[11:31] Yeah, he's the other guy but anyways while I was making this.Frank:[11:34] One stop. Yeah. There is a Wikipedia page for that song. Thank goodness.Bill:[11:35] So, okay this brings us to the song There's so much to talk about with Gino Vannelli and he's so interesting in this way that I want to talk more about Ginofinale and hopefully we do an episode on I just want to stop. Yeah, that's gonna happen.Yeah. And I have this working theory or interest in Italo Canadian rock stars. Someday I'm going to write a paper on this, publish it in our scholarly journal that we publish semi annually.Frank:[11:58] Yeah.[11:58] Oh, yes.[12:06] You mean our show notes?Bill:[12:07] Yeah, our show notes. But I'm not there yet. But I just want to note also Italo Canadian when this comes up in our future episodes this year. All right, did you find anything on the song? Gina Vannelli talking about it.Frank:[12:20] Yes, like the inspiration for it. Yeah, yeah. So, oh, it's a classic mysticism rock star move.So Gino Vannelli is in Peru and he's hiking to Machu Picchu.And he doesn't say it specifically, but it's 100% assumed that he's in Machu Picchu.He takes part in one of those ayahuasca ceremonies, which is, it's like a tobacco. It's like a cannabis sort of, well, it's not cannabis, sorry.It's a...Bill:[12:58] It's not peyote, is it?No. Okay, so did you find an article? Like, I was looking high and low for, I found one interview.Frank:[13:04] Well, I read an interview, I read an article and I listened to the one interview and he.Bill:[13:11] Yeah, okay, go ahead. Keep going on the Ayahuasca thing, yeah.Frank:[13:14] Doesn't say specifically that he was doing ayahuasca but you look at Machu Picchu and he said he was involved in a sort of spiritual awakening and then when you research MachuPichu, yeah, they do these ayahuasca ceremonies, which sort of healers and shaman or whatever in Machu Picchu, it's part of the ceremony, it's supposed to open up your mind.Bill:[13:41] Gotcha. Okay, so I couldn't find an article on that stuff. That's good research. Good job.Frank:[13:46] He doesn't get an answer through this whole ceremony and through his whole experience.Bill:[13:51] But something has happened to him right he's had some sort of spiritual awakening.Frank:[13:55] Awakening. So he goes home and then he starts talking about it just like I need an answer for whathappened in Peru.So he hears about the shaman in New Mexico.Bill:[14:07] In New Mexico, Jamie the shaman. So Jamie the shaman is in New Mexico and he flies to Albuquerque and then has to drive.Frank:[14:10] The shaman.[14:20] Yeah, Jamie.Bill:[14:22] To the fun is it Santa Fe is that in New Mexico is something like that.Frank:[14:23] To find the shaman.[14:27] Yeah.Bill:[14:28] So he's driving and a convertible. So this is just to me is like, first he's a rock star who went to Peru while there was like all this civil unrest. People are getting murdered and stuff.Frank:[14:38] Yeah, they're oh yeah.Bill:[14:39] He's like, but I had to be there. I'm like, Oh, this is so rock star has this experience on a mountain top. And then buys a flight to New Mexico from LA.I think that's where he was at that point gets a convertible because of course you get a convertible and then drives at like a hundredmiles an hour down these roads, which is super dangerous.Frank:[15:00] The whole time he's kind of tapping out the beat of the song on the steering wheel. And he's saying like, I gotta get to that. I gotta get to the shaman. I gotta get to shaman Jamie.Bill:[15:11] He did.Frank:[15:13] I have to get there. It's like nothing's gonna keep me away from shaman Jamie.So he's booting along and I don't even again, I was probably scrolling Tinder, But did even he was talking about getting lost. Did even find Jamie. OK. Yeah.Bill:[15:28] He got to Jamie, but he never got the answers to what he needed, but he got this song that he had in his head. By the time he got there, he had the chorus kind of mapped out and so he had wild horses in his head and he had the drum beat going.Frank:[15:41] Yeah.Bill:[15:41] And so I imagine Roy Freeland probably helped in fleshing out these songs that he'd have them and he'd be like, not a ghostwriter, but the sort of person who comes inand helps kind of clean things up. That's my guess. Roy, you can reach out to us though.Frank:[15:52] Tell us your ayahuasca story.[15:57] But yeah, so the whole time when he's tapping it out on the steering wheel and he's coming, he's like, he's saying, I need to get there.wild horses aren't going to keep me away from getting an answer to my questions, to getting an answer for my vision.Bill:[16:11] Right, so this song in interesting ways,because you can see this as a love song, but this could also be a song about his seeking the divine.And so wild horses couldn't drive him away from this experience.But of course we're gonna dive into these lyrics.Frank:[16:28] Yeah, so the lyrics kind of indicate it's more of a romantic thing, but I think it's,This also, it also parallels nicely with his like dogged determination and his experience with Herb Alpert and getting a record contract back in the 70s.Bill:[16:47] Yeah, that's good analysis.Frank:[16:50] That is good analysis.Bill:[17:12] Alright, now it's time to dive into "Wild Horses" The Song.As the sun goes down on the Arizona Plane and the wind whistles by like a runaway train,Hey hey hey, it's a beautiful thing.Well it's me and you and a flatbed truck, my heart kicking over like a white tail buck.hey hey hey in the middle of spring.[17:59] So, whitetail buck, deer, middle of spring is they want to get some dates.They got like the Tinder thing going on for deer.Frank:[18:09] Yeah, the the the the bucks are on their Tinder. Right. What's deer Tinder? What do you think that? I wonder what that was? Yeah. Yeah.Bill:[18:13] You just always swipe right. Yeah. Always. I saw a bunch of whitetail buck actually in the woods and we followed it.Frank:[18:22] Oh, yeah, by by your place, eh?Bill:[18:22] Yeah. But then following it, I realized they're probably coyotes, which is a really bad idea to be trying to follow a group of coyotes. It was the total setup.Frank:[18:31] Wait, so you saw kairi's that were dressed as deer.Bill:[18:33] I gotta go see the optometrist.Frank:[18:35] This is sounding like a Looney Tunes episode. What I like about that opening lyric and we were talking about this when we were listening to the song beforehand is there's the and the wind whistles by like a runaway train, the drums, it's that clickety clack. It's that train sort of you get that real feeling that imagery of a train. So again, this is something thatthat the lyrics represent what the sound is.Bill:[19:04] Exactly. And they make sure to have like such perfect production for this. They have some of the best session players around, I think anyways, because the drummer and the drums are the key. It's those, it's those brushes on the drums. And that's Dave Garibaldi, who's the drummer for Tower of Power. And it's incredible. And so as you listen to it, those drums drive it. But there's also this bassist named Jimmy Haslip, who's on the bass. And if you go through,through his like website, you can see he just plays, he's just a session player.And he just came in for this one song and holy cow, that bass moves and then you have Joe Vannelli on the xylophone.Frank:[19:46] Thank you!Bill:[19:47] So those things altogether make this song what it is. And then Gino's voice is this sort of, I don't know, I'm trying to think of, he does something with it.It's different from I Just Wanna Stop. What are you thinking?Frank:[20:01] I get huge how this feels. feels.Bill:[20:03] So there's some Roy Orbison Elvis and other performers who I was thinking of that have that but the Elvis thing is really what I was thinking too.Frank:[20:15] That that hey hey hey like it's that.Bill:[20:18] Yeah.And so it's that lustiness, right? Like Elvis, even though now, at least for us growing up, I never thought of him as the this sort of sex symbol thing, but he was that thing in the 50s.And then Gino has that feel he's bringing to the table.And then you got, okay, the next section there, you can cut me deep, you can cut me down, you can cut me loose, it's okay.Yeah, yeah, it's okay. And then he goes to, you can kick and scream,you can slap my face, you can set my wheels on a high-speed chase, oh you, no matter what you do. And we go into that chorus.Is it...Frank:[20:56] No means no.Bill:[21:21] It's kind of creepy But this is the nature of these songs of that era, especially before.So it feels like it's harkening back to a 50s, 60s feel.And that's where you have this notion of this chase.There is something to it when you read these things like, ah, I don't know if I'd sing I'm saying that now, but that's not our styles when we're trying to woo women.Frank:[21:45] That is Gino style. Gino doesn't give up. again the whole Herb Alpert thing and you know speeding to see Shaman Jamie.Bill:[21:54] Yeah, "Wild horses could not drag me away from you."It is such a great line, and it works so well with all the sounds around it.And when I was a kid, I remember, this is the first time I heard a song about wild horses.And then of course years later I'm like, oh, there's a Rolling Stones song? Oh, I guess Gino was just singing a Rolling Stones song.And now the Rolling Stones song goes like this, wild horses couldn't drag me away.Frank:[22:22] Yeah. Well, it's a common saying though, too, right?Bill:[22:23] Okay.Yeah, I guess it is, yeah. And then, you know, there's, so there is a whole thing about wild horses in song.So Gino's got the, he's got the moxie to say, I'm gonna use this that Rolling Stones have used,I'm gonna use it in my song. only to be taught by Bono who's gonna use it a few years later.Frank:[22:42] The.[22:42] Yes. The feel of the song is a very Southwestern feel.Like I said, the clickety clack of the drums almost has a bit of a country edge to it.rock edge to it.Bill:[23:20] Yeah. And there's this, uh, I have written down here, evocative, erotic imagery, right?There's this sort of notion of like, it's me and you in a flatbed truck in a foot of mud, just my luck. Is that bad luck or good luck? Cause he's stuck in mud in a flatbed truck. That kind of insinuates that that's not a bad thing for him. Is it?Frank:[23:43] Yeah, I mean, if he's with her, it's a good thing because, you.Bill:[23:48] Is it?[23:48] It's a flatbed truck.Frank:[23:49] Know. Yeah, exactly. And the horses are going to get stuck in the mud too, so they can't evendrag him away from her at that point.Bill:[23:54] Yeah, exactly.[23:54] Right, they could probably help to get that truck out of the mud though.Frank:[23:56] Yeah, maybe. Yeah, just get a team of horses like a chuckwagon kind of a thing.Bill:[24:02] So we have the second verse has a nice balance to it where he says, well, as the sky falls down, right?And then that's where it begins.I guess the other one is the sun is going down. Now the sky falls down from the midnight blue, spitting like bullets on a hot tin roof.Hey, hey, hey, it's a beautiful sound. And I know that sound, the sound of rain coming down on a hot summer night on a tin roof.Frank:[24:27] Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like bullets. Yeah. Like he says.Bill:[24:29] Oh yeah, like bullets. Yeah. Like he said.Exactly, yeah. Oh well, it's me and you in a flatbed truckand a foot of mud, just my luck, 100 miles out of town. And so again, I guess that's good luck.Although if the rain's coming down, I don't know if you want to be in a flatbed truck.Frank:[24:46] Well, they might be inside the cab of the truck.Bill:[24:48] Okay.Frank:[24:51] Just just because it's a truck, does it in a flatbed truck doesn't mean you have to be outside in on it.Bill:[24:55] Right. If I was going to go literal, he has a tin roof on that truck and it was too hot.Don't touch the tin roof.[25:25] Again, these are images and we learn from Richard Fry.Literalism isn't needed here. just get the picture and get the feel.Frank:[25:34] Yeah, exactly. It paints a picture.Bill:[25:36] And then from there, it goes to the same line. I'm all, it's different here. He says, yeah, you can call me a fool.Frank:[25:42] No, it's different. Yeah.Bill:[25:44] You can call me blind. You can call it quits. I can't hear a word that you said, what you said.Cause if I had you once, I'm gonna have you twice.Ah, okay. I'm gonna follow my heart instead of good advice.Frank:[25:58] No, I have is that good advice.Bill:[26:03] I think it makes more sense to say instead of good advice. my heart instead of good advice.Frank:[26:08] So my reading of it was, I'll follow my heart is that good advice. It's a question. And I'm going to tell Gino here, for someone who's been a fool in love and has been blinded by love, sometimes following your heart is not good advice. You do that too often you end up like me researching while you're on Tinder.Bill:[26:31] Stuck in a foot of mud.Yeah. And then of course we go on to the wild horses.there's repeats and stuff but the feels just come through and it's incredible just the sounds of the song.Frank:[27:10] The sounds in the imagery that it paints you can feel the song. Yeah, it's very textual.Bill:[27:18] Yeah definitely I was wondering this should textual is but what was the other word you said earlier remember what was it yeah definitely not a word yeah.Frank:[27:21] Yeah, definitely not a word.[27:29] Shakespeare in Vengeant Words, why can't I?Bill:[27:34] Oh, you're not Shakespeare.Frank:[27:36] Could be. The instrumental is that syncopation? It's got to.Bill:[27:38] All right. I was wondering if this should just become a category. Take it to the bridge.So the bridge in this song must be that part where he sings a bit and then it moves tothe brushes doing.It's got to be something like that. And it just is perfect because it just brings you to the end and all the good stuff going on there. And the brushes, you know, clean the floor. They do. Ah, that sounds a lot.Frank:[27:57] Be syncopation. There's a definite divide between the,song and then the ending and that just sort of takes you on a little journey.It does. The bass goes for a walk and it takes you along with it.[28:17] Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say the brush has set the pace.Bill:[28:21] Better than me going through man madry. Yeah, it's phenomenal.[28:55] Do you remember the first time you heard this song?Frank:[28:57] It's got to be early 90s, the first time that I really paid attention to it. Because I know that I've heard it, I must have heard it back in the 80s. But it was probably the early 90s when,I'm just starting to get into music and understand music. Starting to gain a small appreciation for,the stuff my parents listened to, in terms of like the Rolling Stones. So I probably heard it. and thinking it's like, that's not "Wild Horses." That's by the Rolling Stones. And then,hearing it again and listening to it. And the more I preferred this version or this the song to the Rolling Stones "Wild Horses." And I love the Rolling Stones "Wild Horses."Bill:[29:41] Yeah, I'm with you on that. I love this version. This is the version,And I would have heard it probably in the late 80s on video hits on cbc.Frank:[29:49] Oh, okay. Yeah.Bill:[29:51] Because this didn't do well in america, but with cancon regulations in canada you had to.Frank:[29:53] Because it had to have no choice but to do good.Bill:[29:59] And this is an example where cancon is great because the song is great,So for whatever reason it didn't make it over there, but we heard it over here I feel like I've heard it on the radio and they would play it on the radio I just never knew it was Gino Vannelli I wouldn't know who he was anyways then but it was a song I remember hearing cuz I played it for Ashley,This is a big test of course,Ashley's sitting next to me and I said, okay We're gonna do this song next and I play it and all I could think of is like yeah She has no idea about the song and she hears it. She goes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I know this song.Frank:[30:32] She says that about a lot of songs, Bill.Bill:[30:34] But no, she was like she started humming the xylophone part She was like, whatever, I want to hum it.Yeah, and so she had it, like, okay, she knows this song. And so it is a song where people know it, even though when I say Wild Horse's Gino Vannelli, I feel like people might not be aware until they hear it and they're like, oh, I I know this.Frank:[30:53] Yeah, and even to mention Gino Vannelli, you're like, I know the name, but I have no idea what he sings. But then you say like wild horses, and you start,singing a bit of the song or I just want to stop. People know that song. So they know who Gino Vannelli is. They just don't,know who he is.Bill:[31:13] The music video is iconic.Frank:[31:16] Well, yeah.I want to say that there's a new move that I'm going to add to my dance floor repertoire. And we talked about like, there is a,There's a subtle eroticism about the song.And in the video, it's just Gino Vanell, like there's the one movie that he does where he he takes his fists and he's not pelvic thrusting, but he's just like slamming his fists on his,upper thighs and he just like and like to the beat and just like that's a new dance floor move for me.Like that that's a little bit of a transition move, but it's going to come out next time I'm on the dance floor.Bill:[31:51] You.[31:51] It's great. And so those who haven't seen the video, of course, you'll see the show notes. They'll be there,That's the only place you can hear the song if you're looking online.Frank:[32:00] Yeah, unless you buy the CD.Bill:[32:01] Unless you buy the cd like I did I would like to buy the vinyl me. I'll look for the vinyl next So let me set the picture for you. It's black and white,he's wearing A white billowy shirt not quite the pirate shirt that we would have seen in seinfeld but not too far removed from it very 80s,He's got those jeans that are they may be acid washed or stonewashed. I'm not sure Is that a stonewashed like acid wash or not at all? Wait, I think they're acid washed.Frank:[32:30] You're asking me fashion questions and I really have no answer to that.Bill:[32:33] Okay, so they're acid washed jeans I think or they're the blue acid wash style at least of that era and He's got some lighter Western boots on perhaps brown perhaps white hard to tell,So when you see him snap his fingers and then pump his fists against his thighs, he's moving with the beat,he's got the two-hand snap back and forth two-hand snaps sometimes hitting his thighs and,He's got,great hair.Frank:[33:04] Because I have it kind of playing here. Well, while we're talking about it. Everyone is sweaty. Yeah, it's the Arizona plate.Bill:[33:10] It's hot it's at least it looks hot I mean Arizona plate. It's hard to know like I keep thinking it's a carnival, but the scenes are like they're in the backyard of a hot Arizona town.Frank:[33:25] I think like raising Arizona like there's a there's a because the the laundry's out on the on the line and everything. Yeah.Bill:[33:32] Yeah, that's right because that's the background is these bedsheets that are hung up. There's a woman just sitting in her like bikini that looks like she's from the 50s maybe chewing gum and not.Frank:[33:42] Yeah, sunglasses. Yeah.Bill:[33:43] Interested. But there's also this fan beside her like those fans you see at the top of buildings that spins around. What type of fan is that? Yeah, so the condenser fan is right at her feet so it's like are they on top of a roof? But then you have a band behind him and it seems like at least one.Frank:[33:50] Well, that would be a condenser fan for an air conditioning unit.Bill:[34:02] Or two bass players at once. There's someone playing xylophone, someone playing drums, but there's,three iterations of this band. It keeps changing to these people who look like players because they don't look like anybody you would hire to act.Frank:[34:15] I'm looking at there's there's the one like bigger drummer, like he's balding wearing glasses and everything like, and I'm not here to shame, but he's not a Hollywood like attractive,man that you would like feature in a video.Bill:[34:31] There's only one person who is both out of place and totally in place and that is the it girl,So she's playing harmonica or appearing to play harmonica I'm not sure we can even see a harmonica and she's just moving with the rhythm and she is striking and She is sweating. Yes, like she's probably sweating the most which of course is very 80s.Frank:[34:45] Yeah, dancing and clapping. Yes. Yeah.Bill:[34:53] Yeah, and so Juno belly's kind of sweating but she is sweating and she's kind of like moving and and he's not, like this is the interesting thing for me in the video, is they're not set up as love interests.She's dancing around him to the music and he'll look over at her kind of, but he's not interested in her in that sort of way.Frank:[35:13] Main character of this video is the song.Bill:[35:17] And so they're moving to it and she's just kind of this character that as a viewer you're drawn to. She is totally fascinating.Alright, so here is some deep research. Two in the morning, I wake up, can't sleep. Maybe thinking about the video, I don't know.And like, I gotta figure out who this person is.So I find this article online. And let me just read the title because the title says it all.MTV It Girls. Who's the girl in the video? This is the article.Frank:[35:51] So you went, okay, you read the article, but then you went all the way through the comments.Bill:[35:52] They go through iconic ones. And then in the comment section, someone says, who's the girl in "Wild Horses?"[36:03] The comments. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I kind of typed into the search engine and then it said it had.Frank:[36:04] To find this information.Bill:[36:09] Something written there, but I had to look through and there's nothing on it. But several people wrote in the comments, who's the girl and "Wild Horses?" So clearly there are people wanting to know. So I get this name Rosetta Millington. And looking it up, like, who is she? I click on it.It's like, it's not Rosetta Millington. Someone named Rosetta Getty. Who's Rosetta Getty? So I'm I'm looking at this I see a picture of this person like well, that's her but there is nothing Linking her to the video. She is not,Unfamous She is married to Balthazar Getty who is the great-grandson of Jay Paul Getty,I believe it's Jay Paul Getty who is the richest man in the world Do you remember that movie all the money in the world? Where's about the kid who got kidnapped? That's Getty.Frank:[36:57] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Did they invite? Did they invent Getty images? Like when you?Bill:[37:00] And so his father Balthazar's father.[37:06] Yeah, the Getty no, it's all connected. Yeah, it's all connected. So.Frank:[37:09] Is it? Yeah. Okay. I was trying to be hilarious.Bill:[37:11] Yes, I think so. Anyways, I at least from what I know because there's this Getty Museum and stuff.Frank:[37:15] Oh, that's unfortunate.Bill:[37:16] And So Balthazar Getty's father is the guy who got kidnapped,in that and had his ear cut off by the mafia and all that and then had a pretty tortured life and died young.Frank:[37:27] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's unfortunate.Bill:[37:28] So Balthazar Getty was a son who never really had you know, a good father figure anyways.This is kind of going off on the side here, but it's all gonna come together.He marries Rosetta Millington who becomes Rosetta Getty who has her own clothing line.Frank:[37:42] So how does she end up in this video?Bill:[37:43] And she's like a fairly big deal from everything I see and they're worth a ton of money, like 300 million.This is before they're married. So there's no mention, she's online and everything, no mention of this video.But when you see her, that is Rosetta Getty.And she has her own line of gowns and stuff. And you can watch these videos where they talk about their life together.And the reason I'm bringing this up is She maybe inadvertently follows the theme of this song,because Balthazar Getty was not an easy person to live with because he had this very public affair with Sienna Miller in 2008.Frank:[38:26] Oh, that's right.Bill:[38:28] Oh, that's right. So everyone knew this. He had kids, like they had three or four kids, I think.And he was off for a long time with Sienna Miller and they got back together and they're still together,because wild horses could not drive Rosetta Getty away from her husband despite, yeah, very public.Frank:[38:45] His infidelity. Yeah, very public. Wow, that's crazy.Bill:[38:48] So it's crazy. So that was my deep dive research and it's totally her. And there is no connection.So I don't know if she's used her money to push down "Wild Horses." I don't know why, because it's fascinating.And as far as eight girls in a video, she's not exploited, I don't think.I mean, it's, we're guys talking about beautiful woman in a video, but she's just this fascinating figure.Frank:[39:13] Yeah, yeah. And she's not I mean, it's not an overt objectification of her in the video. It's not her front and center writhing in a bikini on a car or something like that.Bill:[39:25] No, she's not wearing the bikini the person wearing the bikini is just sitting there. Yeah, I.Frank:[39:28] Yeah, and she's completely uninterested. It's almost like a David Lynch film.Bill:[39:32] Was Heather in down yeah, that's great. It is like a David Lynch film If anything, this is what Wild at Heart should have used maybe I mean, of course, what am I saying?Frank:[39:34] I would be down. Do you know that?[39:43] Yeah, well, why would a hard?Bill:[39:44] Chris Isaac, but this has a total lynching feel and belt is our getty said David Lynch. This is not connected but isis he sees David Lynch as kind of a surrogate father to him. All these weird connections.Frank:[39:56] But.Bill:[39:59] Yeah. Either way, this video feels like Lynch.Frank:[40:03] Yeah.[40:03] It's all six degrees of Gino Vannelli.Bill:[40:06] Yeah. Thank you, Gino for Twin Peaks. So that video is so watchable. I've, I've watched it over and over again, but I also can't help but see Eugene Levy playing Gino Vannelli from the SCTV.Frank:[40:14] So.[40:20] In an SCTV parody of this, yes.Bill:[40:20] Yeah. Yeah. They did a parody of it. I just want to stop where he keeps singing and growing more and more chest hair. So that would be like when we talk about categories, if we're even heading there, we might as well.Frank:[40:26] Yeah.Bill:[40:32] Hallmark movie is like, well, it's a David Lynch movie. This belongs in a David Lynch movie.Frank:[40:35] Yeah.in David Lynch movie. Yeah.Bill:[40:37] So I can't see it as a Hallmark thing,but I can see it as a David Lynch movie.Frank:[40:41] Can we talk about Gino Vannelli in more recent pop culture history? So in 2008,Boston Celtics would play a clip of Dick Clark's American Bandstand and it's just like music playing and a bunch of people dancing and it was like you know panningthrough the crowd and everything and the end of this clip that they would play at Celtics games and it was always during a blowout win for the Celtics. The end of it was this bearded man wearing a very,very tight t-shirt with Gino Vannelli on it. It just said Gino,and they call it Gino time. So in 2008, Gino Vannelli is thrust into the forefront of the Boston like sort of sports popculture history because everyone knows the guy who's dancing in video and everyone knows the shirt that he's wearing so it's Gino time so GinoVannelli has this small little resurgence in 2008 and that's also the year that they won their last championship was 2008 so Gino Vannelli has a part of the Celtics 17th championship in the NBA.Bill:[41:53] All right, let's talk some categories. Okay. Michael Bolton. Could Michael Bolton sing this?Okay, I was actually thinking he could if he toned it down.Frank:[42:08] But you're asking a bird not to fly.Bill:[42:10] I was gonna say at the end, but he could not by the end. He just go wild. He is the wild horse.Frank:[42:15] He is the wild horse.Bill:[42:17] Now I do have another category unfair because I didn't tell you about this. But who who else could sing this and I have one person who I feel could sing this and that's Chris Isaac.Frank:[42:25] Yeah. It's fine. Oh, yeah. Well, it has that that sort of, like.Bill:[42:28] Oh yeah. Yeah.Frank:[42:30] I said, that southwestern almost rockabilly feel to it. So,yeah, who else would who else would would be able to do that? maybe John Bon Jovi and his like cowboy rock stage or Kid Rock?Okay, like Enya?Bill:[42:44] Or I could see it being like a female voice who makes it feel kind of ethereal. So maybe.Yeah. Yeah, she could.Maybe Anya. Maybe like a Phoebe Bridges or a Tori Amos?Could she do it?I'm just trying to think. Someone could do something with it. Could Jule sing this?Frank:[43:14] Yeah, I can hear Jewel singing this. Yeah, Jewel. This is your challenge. And we know you listen to the episode. So we challenge you to sing Gino Vannelli's Wild Horses and send it over to us and maybe hang out with me.Bill:[43:15] Yeah, all right, Jule. The challenge is on.[43:49] Another category here what season of the year and what time of the day does this song work best?Frank:[43:56] End of summer in the evening.Bill:[43:58] You got it, that's the answer. All right one more for you. What part of the date do you play this song on?Frank:[44:05] Okay, it's not a first date song. You know what, it's a third date song after you have a mild misunderstanding. If you're really into her, but without, you know, going creepy.Bill:[44:14] Oh, okay,Okay, because I have getting fresh written down. Not mild misunderstand. To me it seems like that would be your kind of go-to kissing song. It's a kissing song. That's a game.Frank:[44:21] Okay, well that's usually third date.[44:29] It's a kissing song. And a flatbed truck.Bill:[44:33] Yeah, all right. I mean there's one more major category we gotta get to of course. Mixed tape. Mixed tape. You got a mixed tape going? I have a mixed tape. Okay, I'll let you go first.Frank:[44:40] Okay, yeah. Mix tape.Okay. I have a mix tape. Okay, so my mix tape, the theme I went with was songs that have animal names.Bill:[44:51] Animal names? animals Okay, all right, all right, gotcha, okay.Frank:[44:51] Animals in the title.So, Like a Bird on a Wire, the Neville Brothers, Barracuda by Heart,Rock Lobster, the B-52s,A bit of an outlier here and this is just because I love the band but also the song is beautiful. Transient Whales by Toad the Wet Sprocket. Pony by Genuine.And I am ending this just for you Bill hands by Jewel.Bill:[45:30] Hands is not an animal.It's not funny anymore. This is like four, I don't know how many episodesyou've done this to me, whether I've kept it in or cut it out. Okay.Frank:[45:40] No, no, no, I do have an ending for you and this one honestly is just for you. by crazy town.Bill:[45:42] Oh yeah.[45:47] Yes. Oh, what an ending. Oh, that's a great transition into my stuff.So my mixtape went with texture to quote you actually actually from an earlier episode. So after you know, Wild Horses plays or I guess your part. I'm on fire Bruce.Frank:[46:01] Oh yes! Oh good call! Bruce Springsteen can sing me a song.Bill:[46:08] Springsteen. Yeah. Oh, good. Yeah, I got the feel. Yeah. Oh,he could totally sing this. I just died in your arms tonight cutting crew. Okay. Drive the cars. Wicked Game Chris Isaac.Frank:[46:18] I will listen to this mixtape.Bill:[46:24] And then I'm gonna end with Yeah, who's gonna ride your wild horse is you too, because it has that feel and not the one that's on Octon baby, but the mix that was actually the single. It has that sort of feel as well. And it's like a scale,back Bono. And I really like that song and the wild horsesfits within the Gino wild horse world. So it feels like the Gino finale is like wild horses won't drive me away. And Bono is like.Frank:[46:47] Yes, yeah.Bill:[46:53] Who's gonna ride your wild horses? There's there's something going on there. It is the Gino verse. Yeah, I felt really good. I spent a lot of time on this. I do have something else. Gino is so weird. When he's interviewed, he doesn'tFrank:[46:56] It's all in the Genoverse.Yeah. That's a great mixtape.Bill:[47:09] even bother talking about "Wild Horses". He only wants to really talk about his spiritualjourney. I just don't want to hear about it. I want to hear about "Wild Horses," Gino! I don't want to hear about the ego and you're Carl Jung. I just want to hear -Frank:[47:20] I just want you to stop and tell me all the things about you baby. Bill:[47:24] Exactly. So I am so glad we got to talk about a song that's not easy to find on Spotify, that's,not easy to find anywhere.Yeah, that you'd have to go on Amazon and look for dreamers never sleep if you wanted to get a CD copy of this.Frank:[48:00] Yeah, or write Bill, he might be able to send you his. Bill's like a CD library. He can he lends them out and they do come back sometimes. Yeah, and the song I think is critically.Bill:[48:09] They do. You know what? are still an awesome way of listening to music.Frank:[48:17] Critically underappreciated. Like we said, it did very well in Canada, but in the broader NorthAmerica really didn't chart but such a such a good song such a really really good song and a visceral song, you can feel it.You can feel everything that he's singing.It is so good.Bill:[48:39] Yeah, I can't help but gush over this and so, you know, we don't do irony anyways,We like to joke around we don't do irony and this song is incredible. So if you're out there And you know this song but haven't been able to sort of place it anywhere. We're here for you,and,We want you to know that no matter what's going on in the world, wild horses won't drag us away from bringing guilt-free pleasures to you.Frank:[49:13] Thank you for listening.